LeadingLane Podcast

Steven L Burch (00:00)
And I think that, you know, numbers don't lie. And that's what I love when we do goal settings, right? Like, uh, because if you have somebody that comes in and says, you know, the, the first year that they were with the company, they closed five transactions. And then they say, well, cool. Um, I want to do 30 the next year. Okay. Well, like that's far of a stretch. Like, and I never want to piss on anybody's in anybody's Cheerios, but like, what is the realistic way that you're going to attain that?

right. Welcome to the leading podcast. Um, today we, you know, it's, get the beginning of the year and goals are always the hot topic. And we've talked about 30, 60, 90s and talked about goal setting and whatnot, but we really want to do a deep dive and understanding and making sure that we, we, we chatted a little bit about realistic expectations. And then I think also with this too is.

when you are goal setting, let's dive into having those difficult conversations and maybe helping people come down to a realistic level when they have something that maybe is not quite attainable and they don't see it. So, Ashley, what, what do you do when you, when you do goal setting, like, do you just, you know, take a dart and throw it on the wall and see what sticks? Like how do you come up with your different goals for your company and you as an individual?

Ashley (01:39)
Yeah, so to me it's a history pattern, right? So I really try to study what the last year looked like. So all of our agents at the end of the year get a little spreadsheet on it, if it will, and it says January, tells you how many listings you had in January, tells you how many accepted offers you had in January. So goes all the way through the month.

The reason I like to do that is that there are typically patterns in real estate, so whether it's May, June, July, summer months, you can kind of gauge that way. Last year I listed a subdivision in January, so that might look a little different than this January. As far as I'm concerned, for me personally, I can go back years and do that. For the company, super easy to figure out how many transactions we closed last year. I think I might have mentioned this one time, but

I it was for 2024, I took everyone's numbers that they gave me as to what goals were, and that's kind of how I populated our office goal. And then I think we were maybe 60 days in and I was like, yep, 2024 is definitely not gonna be like we thought it was. And if you listen to all the projections, everybody thought that they were gonna be 20 % down. I took that goal and I actually reduced the office goal by 20%. I think our office goal ended up being 243 last year.

and we closed with 247 transactions. So, right, had we left it at like 270 or whatever it was, like that would have been a defeating feeling where to me I wanted it to be like maybe just slightly unattainable. So for me, it's a history of knowing what you're doing. And that can be hard when you're brand new in real estate too, right? Like you have to figure out like, okay, how many people do I know? What can I expect? But even if you're a year in, like what did you do that first year, right? So.

I think in those smaller numbers, for me, I tell people, like, I think it's just best to double your number. So if you have four, maybe your goal for the next year would be eight. But I think what people forget, too, is it goes back to like your daily activities. So what are you doing daily? Or for example, if meeting with someone now and their goal is 30 and we're already halfway through January and there's anything on the books.

Nothing on the books for February. I we could very likely be two months in. That's now we only have 10 months to get 25 transactions. So I think it's a matter of also just keeping a list of like your warm and your hot leads and your cold leads because there's so many people that you meet with in the fall that say I want a list in spring. So are we making sure that we're keeping in touch with those spring people and then they should be part of your goals. So I think it's important to just really have in touch with

your current database, your context that you've kind of been saving, and what your prior history was.

Steven L Burch (04:25)
And I think that, you know, numbers don't lie. And that's what I love when we do goal settings, right? Like, uh, because if you have somebody that comes in and says, you know, the, the first year that they were with the company, they closed five transactions. And then they say, well, cool. Um, I want to do 30 the next year. Okay. Well, like that's far of a stretch. Like, and I never want to piss on anybody's in anybody's Cheerios, but like, what is the realistic way that you're going to attain that?

And I think that, you know, when I go set with, with, not only our agents, but our clients as well, like they're almost trying to give me a number that I think that they think I want to hear. And that's not really what I'm after. Like I want to know, like, if you, if you have a plan to get to 30, what are the actionable items, your daily routines, the things that you're going to do consistently and persistently, every single freaking day to obtain that number and where are you pulling that out of? Like, are you just pulling out of thin air?

So then what happens if you don't start measuring these different types of data points and, you know, KPIs, if you will, on what all you are doing to get that one transaction or those five transactions, and you can multiply that through, it just comes to a numbers game. So I think that also when you start looking at these historical data, you can look at your growth rate year over year and be able to say, cool, well,

My average growth rate, you know, maybe last year wasn't that great just because of the market or election year, whatever the situation, it's personal issues. But you can take an average of your growth rate if you have all the data and then you can say, okay, I'm averaging that I'm increasing 20 % year over year. And it's easy math to be able to say if I did X this year, multiply that by 20%, this is now what I can do and project it for this next year.

But then if you have these other variables that you're going to implement into your business, now you can be able to forecast and say, not only am I going to add my growth rate, but this is now something new I'm going to add into that I've never done. So I'm expecting to sell additional five transactions off of it. And I think when you have the analytical and the stats behind it to support whatever your goal is to make it realistic, then hey, having that, that reach goal is a okay with me.

but it's the planning process and breakdown process beforehand that I don't think a lot of people are able to slow their brains down enough to be able to think like how that simple action has a reaction to create that transaction. So how do you, when you're meeting with your agents or your clients, how do you bring them down and break that down, that number versus just sticking a number on the wall? How do you?

step them through that process.

Ashley (07:12)
Yeah, so think it's a little bit of like just being honest with them and that, you know, I think that I would love to see you at this goal. However, if we look at where you've been the last two years, you know, you'd have to almost triple the production that you were doing. And then they kind of are like, I guess I didn't think about that. So I think you're right. I think there's a part of like a number that sounds good or maybe looks good. But I don't think that people like to break that down into reality, if you will.

Um, and so I like to just break it down as far as like, what are you going to do to get to that? So if we're looking to do something different, what are you gonna do different this year? So like some of the conversations I've had with agents lately are for them to hold more open houses, right? So maybe they did a handful of open houses last year. I tell people all the time, I remember when I started real estate, like that's where you could find me every single weekend was at an open house. And, you know, today I probably don't enjoy them quite the same that I used to.

I'll do them here and there, but there was a point because I was new and I needed to learn. It's also a great opportunity to just have those conversations, better when people are asking about the health, that you just feel more in tune when those conversations come up outside of an open health. But in my office, I have also had people say that, I mean, they need to work on their social media presence quite a bit. I'll go back to their Facebook page and I'll be like, okay, well, kind of scrolling through here, like if I didn't know you, would I know that you were in real estate?

There's not a whole lot of information on here that is. just the general public can easily forget that you're in real estate. mean, let's be honest, every town has how many agents and there is a point of being loud and being seen. And if you're not, you kind of fall off. But I think it's also, you know, following up. think that a lot of people don't do a good job of following up with clients. So.

even if they said they were going to listen in spring and they never hear from you in between those timeframes. Who's to say that they didn't come across another agent somewhere else and they never heard from you again? So they end up listening with that. So I just really try to encourage them to look at like what they're doing that's going to change. So another big one for me, and I know we've talked about this, but it's spending time in the office. So, you know, I've said to a lot of agents, know, you're typically here on

meeting days and maybe for floor, but you know, there's a lot of opportunity when you're here outside of those. So one, you know, you get to hear different conversations and things that are happening. So you can pick up on that. for me, like if I'm busy and there's a walk in and I'm here and you know, there are a lot of times there's no one else here. So I mean, I, end up with the lead or had there been another agent and I'm already busy. Like I had just been like, great, like so-and-so can help you, but there's not anybody else here. Then, you know, I take them and I, and I work on.

That's where I just try to tell them like, that's also focus time. So if you're having a hard time focusing at home or working from home, then come here for two hours. We have plenty of open office spaces you can pop into and watch a webinar or make your phone calls or, you know, plan out your quarterly top buys or those types of things. So it's really just a matter of how are you staying in touch with your people and making sure that, you know, when someone asks them if they know a real estate agent that they're thinking to give them your name.

Steven L Burch (10:21)
Yeah, of course. And I think from a leader standpoint, like what I've learned, not only knowing my numbers from looking at, know, like profit and loss and all these different things, which I'll dive into, but when you talk about and have these one-on-ones with agents and your clients, really what is happening is that you're diving through the black, white analytical information and...

I think a lot of times people don't understand that like, well, I do post on social. How much? OK, you you posted five times in a month. Who? Right. Like and this is you're able to do. You did one open house a quarter. Like, wow. Like that you're not really doing things. And I don't think a lot of people like they see that they did one open house in that quarter. They're not recognizing that they need to do more. And and I think the point here is because you have track.

Ashley (11:08)
.

Steven L Burch (11:12)
like you can track the numbers or track what they're doing, tracking their follow-up, tracking, you know, how many open houses they're doing, tracking on social media, because again, it's all black and white. You're actually holding them accountable. And I think that's where from a leader standpoint, you have to be able to organize what they're trying to do and accomplish, but you also have to be able to hold them accountable. And that is where both of those married together, you'll be able to see those results come out tremendously.

I heard on, I don't know if it was on Tik Tok or where I heard it, but it was talking about number of contacts and, know, put this into a, a baseball or football, you know, metaphor, if you will, right? Like if you're a pro athlete, if you're a pro baseball player,

If you only make five contacts a day, you only hit the ball five times a day. Do you really think that you're going to be performing, you know, as everybody else is in the same league that you're in? Of course not. And so I think that being able to show them that you're only doing five contacts per day. Yeah, that's good. That got you your four, your five for the year that you were looking for. But what if you were to double that? What if you were in the major leagues and you know, the, the player was

bitching and complaining and stomping and sweet because they were never put them up to play it to bat. Like you're going to tell them, get out there and swing the bat more and make more contacts. And it's no different in real estate, anything in business, the more contacts you have, it equals more contracts that you're going to be able to get. And it's all about the relationship. So it's all about the followup. It's making sure that you're staying top of mind. And then the relationship is truly what turns over to revenue for you. So I think it's.

making sure from a leader perspective or from your, if you don't have a leader, it's your perspective of holding yourself accountable of what are those actions? What are those contacts? What are those, again, daily routine items that you're going to be working on and seeing, okay, because I didn't go and do the five, that's why I'm not having any sort of traction. And really the beauty in this industry and real estate is you're your own CEO.

So the only reason why you would be not hitting your goal or not making things happen is because of you. And so you have to have that mirror. And as a leader, job is to help provide, you know, the support, the training, the tools and tech, but we can only lead a horse to water. can't force them to drink. So how is it when you are meeting with your people and let's say that you know that somebody has a big goal.

Um, but they're not following through with, you know, coming to the office. Let's do something very simple like that. They tell you, they say, yeah, actually, I'm going to come to the office. I'm going to be more present. And then they don't. You recognize they're not. How do you have that conversation?

Ashley (13:58)
Mm-hmm.

I mean, I think that it's an easy enough thing just, I think it depends on the person, right? So I think depending on the person's personality, et cetera, you can kind of joke around with them like, thought I was gonna see you a little bit more often, right? There's some people though that probably wouldn't take that as well. So you have to know your people well enough. But I think it's just a matter of, know, saying to someone like, hey, you have a couple of minutes. And they'll come in and just be like, hey, just wanna touch base. You know, I thought I was gonna see you a little bit more often.

I think it's really just being, I mean, just being caring and being upfront. I think in our office, I think it helps with our accountability partners because it's also someone besides me that might be saying something to them. And the other part of that is, you know, yes, we have our own separate accountability partners, but when we do our 30s, 60s, 90s, we do them in front of everyone. So there were several agents that said that their intentions were to be in the office more this week. And I said it at

Steven L Burch (14:51)
Hmm.

Ashley (14:57)
or this year and they said it in front of everyone. So now it's kind of on everyone else in the office too to be like, hey, I thought I was going to see you more. The other part of that too is that.

Ashley (15:07)
50 and close to what are we doing again? know, did you follow through and I know that you always say you're a great your product of what you did 90 days ago. So what are you doing now to impact the next 90 days? So think that when you see people that are off, I think it's I think it's uncomfortable for a lot of people to just say something. I think they're always afraid of like, what are they gonna say is wrong or what's bothering them. But I think that's normally when people are

when they realize that like you've realized something about them, think it means a lot. So sometimes with agents or staff, I'll just be like, all right, like you don't see yourself like something's not right, you know, I think for people seeing that you can acknowledge that with them, and they might not want to say anything right away. But I think that when they see that you can see that they're not doing their goals, I think hopefully for most people, it's a little bit of a wake up call.

Steven L Burch (15:57)
And I think that's where, now you create that culture because you're coming from a caring place versus, you know, attacking them type of thing. So, um, I think that you're absolutely correct. But I want, before I go on to this next question, you, did you always, uh, start the, not, not start the confrontation, but like, did you always want you to recognize that there was something going on? Did you always say something at the very beginning or?

Ashley (16:26)
Hmm.

Steven L Burch (16:26)
How did that work for you?

Ashley (16:28)
Obviously not well. So, right, I think like it's always a growing thing as a leader, right? And as we talk about, there is no roadmap to being a leader. is no follow this instructions, if you will. So I think that I have just found that when you let things fester for too long, like by the time you actually do say something, it could have been months worth of a misunderstanding or...

Steven L Burch (16:29)
Thanks

Ashley (16:55)
Same thing for that agent, like maybe if we would have said something sooner, maybe we would have not lost them or maybe they would have realized that they needed help. And, you know, it goes back to what we talked about earlier and it's not even just help at the office. I mean, I have these conversations with agents and staff all the time. Like, it's okay if you need help outside of the office. It's okay if you need to see someone and that probably didn't happen until like the last.

I would say two years that I started saying things more frequently, but I think it's just a matter of growth and, you know, talking to you through things and you just bluntly asking, like, have you said anything? And no, you you don't want to step on people's toes. You don't want to seem overbearing. But at the end of the day, like we're supposed to be a leader and we have to have those uncomfortable conversations.

Steven L Burch (17:37)
Absolutely. So I'm listening to a book by John Maxwell. This is my second book that I've listened of his. The one I'm listening right now is Winning with People. And hopefully I don't butcher this too much, but essentially talking about confrontation is the way that he puts it is confrontation is a lot like cancer. The more that you try to avoid it, the more that you...

don't get it checked out, like the bigger and bigger it's going to grow and the earlier that you can, you know, basically be able to, realize or, catch it, right. Catch cancer in early stages. The better chances are that you're going to have a better outcome. So I thought that was a really interesting concept of like, you know, I think that's puts it in real life terms of how important it is to be able to,

go to confrontation quickly. I've always been somebody that's been very blunt and I've tried so hard to be able to suppress that for so long. But in reality, that was actually hindering me in my relationship with my team because I wouldn't say something right up front. But now I'm very open and honest, but I'll put it in a position by...

My change was not that I needed to not be blunt. was my approach and my delivery and tone of how I was saying things. So now I just adapted to where like, want to be keep that bluntness, but I just need to restructure it in a manner to where they'll receive it and comprehend it versus feeling defensive. and I think with listening to that and hearing it, that how confrontation is a lot like cancer, like I want to catch it early. I'm everybody wants that early. They want a better, result at the end. so.

To me, think that so many people run away from it and I don't think that you should run away from confrontation. And not that I think that showing up to the office is major confrontation, but in reality as a leader, it is because that now is affecting your goals that you are taking from your agents, that you're taking their numbers for your overall arching company goal. So it is affecting you at the end of the day.

So you have to catch it early and say something to them. And if you're coming from a place of caring and love, and maybe it's something that is happening at home and you can be there to be somebody else and lend a shoulder, lend a hand, whatever it needs to be.

Ashley (19:54)
What

I think we've talked about too that sometimes it's like wasted energy, right? So like people will avoid this confrontation or what they think might be confrontation or what they think the outcome might end up being when in all reality, you you might've wasted two or three months on something, you know, they might do this or they might say this when I say something and then you know, it's a whole bunch of energy and time wasted and then you actually have the conversation and it's completely fine.

Steven L Burch (20:21)
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, something early, early, early on, going back to like the measuring and whatnot, like I used to not, used to not, you know, know my numbers, know these different things. didn't track anything. And so I shared this story before that, Emron Pilati called me out and a group of people.

he was coming from a place of love, asked me, you know, how often I look at my profit and loss. I was like, never. Then he asked me another question. It was almost like he was picking on me, which he was. and I said that moment for it, like, I'm never going to allow that. Like I need to know my numbers at all times. I need to know, have a pulse on my company. I need to know like track and measure. Same with like our CRM. We didn't, when we first started in real estate, at least when I first started in real estate, I didn't use a CRM. So I was never tracking it.

So when I started leading people, like I never knew to look at that analytical information. So I have this phrase that I came up with. So if you don't measure it, how will you master it? If you don't master it, how will you scale it? If you don't scale it, how will you sell it? And if you want to sell it, you must start by mastering it or excuse me, measuring it. So everything is measurable.

And you put everything in black, white, as far as yes, no, did you do it? Did you not do it? And I think going back to how you set goals and as a leader, how you help people through that is a lot of people will say, well, I'm going to try. I wanna, you know, these kind of loopholes in their phrasing of what they're setting up.

And I've learned very quickly to be able to call people out. And you've been at my, the broker fast track retreat. I mean, we've worked together, you know, client level as well. And I call people out on that all the time. I'm going to try. You're going to what? No, you're going to do it. Like if you're going to say it, you're going to do it. You're not going to try or I wanna, or I have this thought, because what you're doing is you're automatic, automatically allowing yourself.

this loophole to get out of it. And because you're not putting something measurable to it and you're gonna say, well, I'm gonna try to add more deals. What does that really mean at the end of the day? So when you say I'm going to sell five more transactions, okay, great. Now we're getting a little bit more specific and now it's a very direct and it's not a loophole. Now, how are you gonna be able to do it? So I think your terminology of how you are saying it to yourself and to others is so important.

Ashley (22:48)
I think that's also where I think for me like affirmations have come into play. I also think it's just important like I think visuals are important for people. So sure, like if you say you're going to have 25 transactions this year, like where do you have that? Like do you have that written somewhere that you see every day? You know, do you remember that all the time? So I think if you work on affirmations, which could just be simple as like five things that you write down every day.

I've worked on this with some of my clients, right? Where it's like, I'm going to have two listings a month. they, when I told them that they were going to start writing that down, they're like, well, that'll never happen. And I think it started with maybe one listing a month. And all of sudden, I started having one listing a month. And then I was like, well, maybe we should change that to two listings a month. And I tell people that when you write it down and when you see it visually, I just think that there's like a different awareness of yourself and

To me, it's kind of like, talk about like, you to put it out into the world, right? So oddly enough, end of December, right? Like, I want to get on more stages, like, ready to put it out in the world. And then I had an opportunity the next week, right? So like, if you put it out in the world, I also just think your brain is thinking about it more often. So if someone were to say something, you know, a client that said that, like they were looking to build spec homes, well then great. If you're thinking like you want more listings, then the next part would be, that person said they were going to talk about.

selling spec homes, maybe I can help them list them, I should make that phone call. So again, if you're just more aware or in tune with it, what your goals are every single day, I think that the possibilities just maybe flow in a little bit more because you're more open to receiving it.

Steven L Burch (24:26)
And I think with, you know, doing this too is understanding that not every single day you're going to be a hundred percent, right? Like it's not realistic. That's realistic expectations for yourself. We always say one percent better than where you were yesterday and as long as you're one percent. But what I love to be able to do with my people is yes, we're doing this planning and we come up with this annual goal, but

we need to drill it down on a daily basis. So the bite-sized pieces, how is that going to look? But what I have them do is three different plans, a good, better, and best. design your day. What does a good day look like? Like this is your bare minimum, what you're going to be able to do. Does that mean that you're going to get up at 5 a.m., then you're going to do Rise and Thrive at 5.30, and then you're going to work out, like what does that actually look like?

look like for you, then what are your actionable items that are non-negotiable that you have to do in order to hit your goal? And then there's things that you can do above and beyond. So that would then go to your next one. So you have good, better than best. And then you do your best day. So if you had, if you're operating at 100%, it was a slam dunk freaking day. And you know, like if you were to accomplish everything on this and this is exactly how your ideal day would go. And I know that.

in real estate and life. It's not going to go hour by hour. It's going to flex out. We get that. That's not the point. It's just designing your day so that you understand you either have a good day, better day or a best day. And as long as you stay within those three categories and you're allowing yourself some wiggle room, if you want to be able to say, man, today's not a great day for me, but I'm still going to have a good day by doing these actionable items. And I'm at still success. And so I think when you put it into a

again, writing it down into a manner that you can visually see this and understand that you don't have to feel this guilt that I did not have a great day today. And maybe you're not going to have a great day tomorrow, but you can have a good day. And if you have multiple good days, you're still going to be hitting your goals. But if you have multiple great days, you're going to be exceeding your goals. So I think it's super important to put everything visually and put it into different structures, if you will.

Because my brain doesn't work the same as yours, but there may be something that clicks in your brain by doing these different types of activities, which is the same activity as a 30, 60, 90, just broken down a little bit differently. So if you get a lot of these little all home moments from multiple different activities and you have these visuals like your guys's 30, 60, 90s in your office, hung up everywhere, everybody's gonna hold you accountable. And if you have this plan and you're your own CEO,

and it's not working, you're going to go back to your plan. What do I need to pivot? What do I need to change just a little bit to have a completely different, drastic change on my production or my mood or whatever it is that I'm trying to change?

Ashley (27:20)
think the other thing too is just remembering that a bad moment doesn't have to equal a bad day. So shitty things happen in real estate, people say not nice things, some other agents are not always cordial to deal with. And I think that sometimes people just get wrapped up in that in the whole day and then it affects their whole entire day where I've really tried to be like, well, that was a shitty half hour, that was a shitty conversation, but I'm gonna let that go and I'm gonna move on and you don't want it to affect the

Steven L Burch (27:25)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley (27:50)
like the new first time home buyer that's coming in in a half hour, like they don't deserve to have that weight that you felt, right? They deserve to be happy, excited, et cetera. So I think just trying to remember that everything has its place, set it aside, you always come back to it later. But at the end of the day, like if we look at the whole picture, like we're alive, we're doing well, we get to do what we love to do every single day, and we should be happy about that.

Steven L Burch (28:14)
So to wrap this up and pull this circle around, if I'm a brand new agent or somebody that does not have not tracked any of my stuff in the past and I'm brand new at goal setting, what are the top five things that you would tell me to start immediately to get this ball rolling so that next year at this time it will look totally different?

Ashley (28:35)
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the biggest things is getting in touch with your sphere, right? So even today, like 95 % of my business is spheres, spheres. So even if you can start now, so, you know, it's a matter of sending your sphere cards, calling them, just letting them know that you're in real estate. think that that's one of the easiest things to do as a, you know, brand new agent. I think that doing open houses, I that there are plenty of opportunities of agents in your office that probably don't want to do open houses.

But that, you know, their clients would love that. So I think, you know, doing open houses is a great one. Also just going to events. So I think if you go to other real estate events, that's great. So there's lots of, you know, board events, state events, you state conferences, obviously franchise type conferences. Even when you're a new agent, I think that when you're a seasoned agent, like you can always just meet new people that might have an impact. You can learn new things. You wouldn't have.

you know, maybe learned if you hadn't gone. I think also obviously as everyone knows that I'll say this, but being involved in your community, think that's a great way to meet people. and then I think, you know, probably looking at some designations is another great opportunity, especially in this, this world. mean, if you can get your ABR designation, if you're a brand new agent, it will set you apart from many other agents that don't have it or aren't willing to put the time and effort into it. So I think.

Things that will make you a better agent, that will make you more comfortable in front of people, those are kind of what I can come up with.

Steven L Burch (30:08)
So, no, I think those are great, great points. you know, I think that

Um, just to articulate again, the tracking everything. So writing it down, organizing it in a manner that if you are going to these events, like what events are you going to? How often are you going to these different, different types of events? How often are you doing these educations? How often are you hosting open houses? Um, so I think that the more that you can track, the more that you can document, um, and put it in an organized fashion, you're then going to start being able to see if I send more cards.

if that has a huge return for you or if I make birthday phone calls to Mysphere. What if I now host client appreciation kind of events, right? What if I now do pot buys? know, it's this compound effect, but first it's finding your footing, if you will, your baseline of how you're building your business.

so that you're not just jumping all over the place. Because I also think that's something we have not talked about on this podcast or in this episode is like the new shiny thing because it's so easy then to jump and say, well, I'm to do this. But then you stop doing your birthday cards or your potlice and then you're going to say, I'm going to go do this now. And then you stop that, you know, next thing. It's always constantly this noise that is happening outside of this industry.

Ashley (31:12)
Yeah.

Steven L Burch (31:30)
And it's so easy to get distracted, but you have to have those actions that you're consistent with and you can't just jump around and be like Frogger. You want to make sure that you're very consistent. So great topic. Love it. So you have anything else to add?

Ashley (31:44)
Nope, I think that's great. think

just, you know, make sure that you're reasonable about your goals and that it's okay to have to adjust goals. I mean, I think trying to make sure that you feel comfortable without them year round things change and it's okay to make changes, but just to try to find a supportive network as well.

Steven L Burch (32:01)
Absolutely. Well, thank you for tuning into today's podcast. If you have any different ideas for topics or you would like to be a guest on our show, please reach out. We would love to hear from you and tune in next time.